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The Female View - December 2007



He woke suddenly and completely. It was four o'clock, the hour at which his father had always called him to get up and help with the milking. Strange how the habits of his youth clung to him still! Fifty years ago, and his father had been dead for thirty years, and yet he waked at four o'clock in the morning. He had trained himself to turn over and go to sleep, but this morning it was Christmas, he did not try to sleep.

Why did he feel so awake tonight? He slipped back in time, as he did so easily nowadays. He was fifteen years old and still on his father's farm. He loved his father. He had not known it until one day a few days before Christmas, when he had overheard what his father was saying to his mother.


"Mary, I hate to call Rob in the mornings. He's growing so fast and he needs his sleep. If you could see how he sleeps when I go in to wake him up! I wish I could manage alone."


"Well, you can't, Adam." His mother's voice was brisk. "Besides, he isn't a child anymore. It's time he took his turn."

"Yes," his father said slowly. "But I sure do hate to wake him."

When he heard these words, something in him spoke: his father loved him! He had never thought of that before, taking for granted the tie of their blood. Neither his father nor his mother talked about loving their children--they had no time for such things. There was always so much to do on the farm.

Now that he knew his father loved him, there would be no loitering in the mornings and having to be called again. He got up after that, stumbling blindly in his sleep, and pulled on his clothes, his eyes shut, but he got up.

And then on the night before Christmas, that year when he was fifteen, he lay for a few minutes thinking about the next day. They were poor, and most of the excitement was in the turkey they had raised themselves and mince pies his mother made. His sisters sewed presents and his mother and father always bought him something he needed, not only a warm jacket, maybe, but something more, such as a book. And he saved and bought them each something, too.



He wished, that Christmas when he was fifteen, he had a better present for his father. As usual he had gone to the ten-cent store and bought a tie. It had semed nice enough until he lay thinking the night before Christmas. He looked out of his attic window, the stars were bright.

"Dad," he had once asked when he was a little boy, "What is a stable?"

"It's just a barn," his father had replied, "like ours."

Then Jesus had been born in a barn, and to a barn the shepherds had come...

The thought struck him like a silver dagger. Why should he not give his father a special gift too, out there in the barn? He could get up early, earlier than four o'clock, and he could creep into the barn and get all the milking done. He'd do it alone, milk and clean up, and then when his father went in to start the milking he'd see it all done. And he would know who had done it. He laughed to himself as he gazed at the stars. It was what he would do, and he musn't sleep too sound.

He must have waked twenty times, scratching a match to look each time to look at his old watch -- midnight, and half past one, and then two o'clock.

At a quarter to three he got up and put on his clothes. He crept downstairs, careful of the creaky boards, and let himself out. The cows looked at him, sleepy and surprised. It was early for them, too.

He had never milked all alone before, but it seemed almost easy. He kept thinking about his father's surprise. His father would come in and get him, saying that he would get things started while Rob was getting dressed. He'd go to the barn, open the door, and then he'd go get the two big empty milk cans. But they wouldn't be waiting or empty, they'd be standing in the milk-house, filled.

"What the--," he could hear his father exclaiming.

He smiled and milked steadily, two strong streams rushing into the pail, frothing and fragrant.

The task went more easily than he had ever known it to go before. Milking for once was not a chore. It was something else, a gift to his father who loved him. He finished, the two milk cans were full, and he covered them and closed the milk-house door carefully, making sure of the latch.

Back in his room he had only a minute to pull off his clothes in the darkness and jump into bed, for he heard his father up. He put the covers over his head to silence his quick breathing. The door opened.

"Rob!" His father called. "We have to get up, son, even if it is Christmas."

"Aw-right," he said sleepily.

The door closed and he lay still, laughing to himself. In just a few minutes his father would know. His dancing heart was ready to jump from his body.

The minutes were endless -- ten, fifteen, he did not know how many -- and he heard his father's footsteps again. The door opened and he lay still.

"Rob!"

"Yes, Dad--"

His father was laughing, a queer sobbing sort of laugh.

"Thought you'd fool me, did you?" His father was standing by his bed, feeling for him, pulling away the cover.

"It's for Christmas, Dad!"

He found his father and clutched him in a great hug. He felt his father's arms go around him. It was dark and they could not see each other's faces.

"Son, I thank you. Nobody ever did a nicer thing--"

"Oh, Dad, I want you to know -- I do want to be good!" The words broke from him of their own will. He did not know what to say. His heart was bursting with love.

He got up and pulled on his clothes again and they went down to the Christmas tree. Oh what a Christmas, and how his heart had nearly burst again with shyness and pride as his father told his mother and made the younger children listen about how he, Rob, had got up all by himself.

"The best Christmas gift I ever had, and I'll remember it, son every year on Christmas morning, so long as I live."

They had both remembered it, and now that his father was dead, he remembered it alone: that blessed Christmas dawn when, alone with the cows in the barn, he had made his first gift of true love.

This Christmas he wanted to write a card to his wife and tell her how much he loved her, it had been a long time since he had really told her, although he loved her in a very special way, much more than he ever had when they were young. He had been fortunate that she had loved him. Ah, that was the true joy of life, the ability to love. Love was still alive in him, it still was.

It occured to him suddenly that it was alive because long ago it had been born in him when he knew his father loved him. That was it: Love alone could awaken love. And he could give the gift again and again.This morning, this blessed Christmas morning, he would give it to his beloved wife. He could write it down in a letter for her to read and keep forever. He went to his desk and began his love letter to his wife: My dearest love...

Such a happy, happy Christmas!


THE END

27
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History Lesson

December 23rd 2007 04:08

Question 1:

If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis, would you recommend that she have an abortion? Read the next question before looking at the response for this one.

Question 2:

It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here are the facts about the three candidates.

Candidate A.

Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with an astrologist. He's had two mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.

Candidate B.

He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.

Candidate C.

He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, only drinks an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife. Which of these candidates would be your choice? Decide first ... no peeking, then scroll down for the response.












Candidate A is Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Candidate B is Winston Churchill.
Candidate C is Adolph Hitler.

And, by the way, on your answer to the abortion question: If you said YES, you just killed Beethoven.




49
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No Muslim School for Us

December 21st 2007 23:25

No Muslim School for Us
Article from Daily Telegraph
by Michael Cazzulino


December 21, 2007 12:00am

UNTROUBLED by traffic lights or long lines of cars, the grey expanse of Argyle St stretches through the heart of Camden, rolling lazily over gentle slopes and bordered on either side by specialty shops bearing sign names lettered in olde English.

It is here that long-time locals tend to congregate, gathering for a pint at the Argyle Inn, or meeting for lunch further up the road at Seagulls on Argyle, where the specialty is billed as "fresh-cooked chooks" but patrons say the fish and chips are every bit as good.

Take a seat at one of the outdoor tables and the conversation seems to eddy around you - the usual observations about school holidays mostly, mixed with last-minute panic about Christmas shopping.

In recent times though, another topic has come to dominate, although it is broached with caution and discussed more quietly.

"About this Islamic school," one diner begins, "I just don't think they should build it here. It's just not right," she says through pursed lips.

Her order comes and the subject changes abruptly, but it is not difficult to surmise that the institution in question is the one proposed for a 15ha property in the neighbouring suburb of Cawdor.

The school, which would host some 1200 Muslim students, would comprise "a new primary school, high school, multi-purpose hall, playing fields, carparking, roadworks and associated civil works and landscaping", according to a development application submitted to council.

Unsurprisingly, the proposal has raised a number of eyebrows in the predominantly Anglo-Saxon township in Sydney's south-west.

Many have already made their concerns known. According to mayor Chris Patterson 3500 submissions about the school have already been lodged with council. Of them, he says at least 2700 residents have included their full address details and while the count is still ongoing, just 13 have been in support of the school.

For Quranic Society spokesman Jeremy Bingham, the fact that many residents don't want the school built in the region is not a matter of particular concern.

Neither is the fact that a heated public meeting, held on Wednesday night to oppose the development, had to be closed after close to 800 people flooded Camden Civic Centre. The doors were shut when the auditorium reached its 670-person capacity.

Mr Bingham says the council is legally obliged to judge the application against planning considerations only. The fact that the residents are unhappy about it is immaterial.

"If the council should knock back the development application, the (Quranic) Society will appeal the decision and we're confident the Land and Environment Court will approve it."


Readers' Comments
No Muslim school for us
Article from:
By Michelle Cazzulino


Do not ask the anglo saxons to intergrate ask the muslims to intergrate.we did that many years ago in the (darkages) and its become the norm, they have fallen behind its there move.
Posted by: aureliano of perth 10:19am today
Comment 64 of 64

Dave of Sydney; very nicely put!
Posted by: Ryan of Brisbane 10:18am today
Comment 63 of 64

Just close all religious schools and put the kids in mainstream classes to learn how to accept different cultures. I dont think they should even have scripture in schools, public or private, what if your an athiest, I am sure it gets very confusing for children when religion is brought to schools. Religion should only be for churchs, not schools.
Posted by: Brad of Sydney 10:16am today
Comment 62 of 64

Let's address the real issue at hand here. Does the Muslim community have the right to build a school that caters to their faith? The answer is yes. We couldn't honestly stand before the world and call ourselves a modern democratic nation if that weren't the case, but, there is always a but we must not be afraid to address the sincere concerns of our nations traditional citizens. Oh don't get upset libs, it is true this country was predominantly founded by Christian Europeans and that has been the norm for close to 150 years. Sure there have been differences in what traditional Australians believe and feel but never to the level we have experienced in recent times - the Muslim community is not interested in being Australian and this is what scares the average Aussie.
Posted by: Joe of USA (Aust Living Abroad) 10:15am today
Comment 61 of 64

Do they want their own school because they don't want their children to adopt western values or Austrlian culture or to be assimiated into mainstream Australian society.
Posted by: Jim of Victoria 10:14am today
Comment 60 of 64

To the people who think whites where here before Muslims !!!!! here is the link Really Long Link . Revisit your history and by the way this is from a GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT
Posted by: Sam of Parramatta 10:06am today
Comment 59 of 64

I am a racist and it is just plain wrong. Stop apologising for being White in a country that we stole through force.
Posted by: HAcker of adelaide 10:04am today
Comment 58 of 64

me of sydney, do you have proof that it was a local that did this dispicable act? There are plenty of outsiders having their say on this matter. The locals have every right to say they do not agree with this school going ahead.It is not getting built for local kids. The Society have already advised the residents that they will be bussing the kids in from towns such as Penrith, Auburn and Moorebank. I can't see how Camden can be classified as being local to these towns, can you?
Posted by: Chris 10:02am today
Comment 57 of 64

I think the muslim school should be welcomed on a few conditions.The leaders must sign iron clad contracts that the schools will; Denounce all forms of terrorists, teach their children to be tolerant of ALL other religions and ALL other ways of life- even of non-muslim girls going topless at the beach, to undertake NOT to teach their children that the muslims should take over the world, that Rome has every right to stay Christian, that Australian women are not "uncovered meat", that muslims DO NOT have more rights to Australia than other religions or backgrounds and that there is NO EXCUSE for so called "honour killings" for any reason and that their children MUST be allowed to integrate with non-muslims and join other religions if they wish with no fear of recriminations. These are fair conditions and I would be happy if they were imposed on any other religious schools, what do you think the chances are that they would agree?
Posted by: Try this of sydney 10:00am today
Comment 56 of 64

Isn't it about time religion was put to rest, all it causes is trouble. PEOPLE THE IS NO REASON WHY GET OVER IT, we live we die, and life goes on
Posted by: sav77 of Sunny Coast 10:00am today
Comment 55 of 64

To all those polictically correct "do gooders" writing in claiming that Australia is racist have a good look at yourselves. Look at recent history where DOCs did not remove a 10 year old girl from a remote aboriginal community for fear of being call racists. Look what happenned to her. Lets not turn into a nation of Pollyannas.
Posted by: Christine of Sydney 9:58am today
Comment 54 of 64

Pollyanna of Melbourne, although I agree with your comments you have to look at what has occured in the past. Yes I am all for the multi culrual society but due to the "unbalanced" approach by do gooder MP etc the people of OZ are very shy of promoting it. An example of this is Kindrgarten not allowing visits by santa because they don't want to offend othe rcultures, not being able to buy a egg and bacon Mc muffin in lakema and other places because the resturant is owned y a muslim who won't make it due to his religious beliefs etc. If a muslim school was built in an area like Camden the chances are (as I said history proves this) then over time the Aussie traditon will give way to the minority because they are offended by our way of life. I am afraid I too am getting very tired and put off by the minority groups from other cultures getting what they want at the suffering of the majority of Aussies who just want to get on with their way of life. If they are so keen to go to a muslim school, then I know of a few good countries which alreay have them.
Posted by: KO of Sydney 9:57am today
Comment 53 of 64

dear all, there is a proposal for a Christian school to be built around the corner from my house. I plead with you all to join me in protest against this atrocity. This school will teach Christian values, and will not allow non-christians to attend, excluding a large part of the community. This religion promotes values such as sexism, racism, and a lack of tolerance to other religions. Not to mention, that the traffic around my home will become a nightmare. Please, join me, I beg you all and help me protect our Australian way of like
Posted by: dan of melbourne 9:56am today
Comment 52 of 64

Senada Colan of Melbourne, comment 1, you are a classic example as to why the school should not go ahead, if these kind of teachings are going to go on in an islamic school then I say NO. Until the islamic community start to learn and respect the history of the first fleet , federation ,Australia at war etc, then they do not deserve to have their own school.
Posted by: Dylan 9:54am today
Comment 51 of 64

I think that what worries people is not just the school. It is the fact that when there is a school in the area that more Muslims will want to move into the Community and things will change. The shops will change; the meat will have to be Halal. Girls who used to look dressed will appear undressed in comparison to their Muslim peers and the fear of the disrespect by men to those 'scantily dressed woman' will put fear and concern into the community. Add to that traffic conjestion and more young people and there is reason for concern. The community like the landscape, environment and scenery the way that it is The fears are real, the problem is that being hostile towards them isn't going to make things better and at the end of the day we are not allowed to discriminate no matter what so they will win. What sort of community spirit will there be then? There needs to be a better understanding and a show of respect from all concerned. We live in a Country where when a group moves into an area - inevitably they take over, often it is because of the hostility towards them like what is being shown. What concerns me is that Public Schools are run down and underfunded and the Government is going to no doubt give this school millions and provide this group of people with the state of the art and best learning environment. How can public school students compete?
Posted by: Jolanda Challita of Miranda 9:53am today
Comment 50 of 64

Adam of Sydney... can you please explain what your issue is with Muslims praying 5 times a day? Are they disrupting your life in any way by doing this?
Posted by: rofl 9:52am today
Comment 49 of 64

What I say probably won't get printed but here goes. Integration of different cultures does not work. That isn't a racist comment it is fact. Different cultures will always find it difficult to mix so they just form their own communities. Multiculturalism is great in symbolism but what is at risk is the potential loss of Australian identity. Getting back to Islam and I have to agree with Fred Nile. Islamic extremist regimes and militants oversee mass genocide of people of many different backgrounds in countries like Sudan, Iraq, just to name a few. Essentially if you are not a moslem in these countries, you are an infidel and you are to be exterminated. I can hear you all now saying that is what christians are doing like George Bush. Well, the US army does not jail or kill moslems in the US under the protection of US law. Yet you can call a teddy bear Mohammed and be threatned with death or jail for it if you live in a moslem extremist country. Hardly any of this stuff hits the mainstream news, but you will shocked by what you see if you check out www.prisoneralert.com
Posted by: be careful 9:52am today
Comment 48 of 64

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith; we need believing people." - Adolph Hilter. We should remember who said this and why they said this when we consider the approval and government funding of all religious schools, not just muslim ones. Targeting only a muslim school misses the point.
Posted by: Julian of Parramatta 9:50am today
Comment 47 of 64

I am not racist, but, reminds me of the old days, we tried so hard kick out protestants....and now they are everywhere....
Posted by: James of Camden 9:49am today
Comment 46 of 64

Camden is the last suburb in the Greater Sydney area that I would pick to put a Muslim school. You are talking about a town that has 1 set of traffic lights and wont even allow a McDonalds to be built in town. Having recently moved into the Bankstown region, I know what a nightmare the traffic can be - down the road from my house, what used to be an anglican church is now a mosque. Every Friday there are that many cars that they park on peoples lawn without permission, park across your driveway so you cant get your car out, or park your car in on the street. They park diagonally across corners and have no respect for the road rules at all. Yet somehow we are the arrogant ones? They want to cry foul that we dont accept them into our society yet they continue to do everything to segregate themselves. I went to school with people that were Christian, Catholic, Orthodox, Jehovah's Witness, Buddhist and Hindu. Somehow we all got along and even got an education out of it.
Posted by: Linda of Sydney 9:49am today
Comment 45 of 64

Sednada if you wanto quibble about dates, there is eveidence that the Chinese were here in the 1400s. However i believe the Aboriginies colonised the country over 40,000 years ago. Who came first has nothing to do with it. I am neither for or against the Islamic schoool. HOwever my concern is the residents of Camden aren't being allowed to get genuine views across, their local meetings seemed to be hijacked by people left over from the Cronulla riots and from Reverand Fred 'I despise anything non-Chirstian' Niles. My aunt lives in Camden, she's Chinese and I am sure there are other ethincs in that area, are their concerns being sought? Come on fairs fair, if you are going to have a meeting for locals to discuss this and perhaps learn that it might not be so scary, why allow people from outside of the town to hijack the meeting? Does the Anglo Australia party really need to be there? Does Reverand Fred Nile. Anyway an Anglo-saxon person is person of mixed descent the true kelts of Britain diesd out when it was take over by Roman rule. Thos claiming British ancestry should know they have Roman (Italian), French, German and Nordic blood. A lot of medicinal history, bible stories, comes from Islamic nations.
Posted by: lily of Sydney 9:49am today
Comment 44 of 64

Islam is not a race. Comments suffixed with "I'm no racist, but..." indicate ignorance.
Posted by: Kylie 9:49am today
Comment 43 of 64

Daniel of Sydney 8:30am today Daniel, just such a suggestion - a Christian church in Saudi Arabia - was proposed within the past fortnight, as a sort of 'quid pro quo' for supporting the construction of a huge mosque in London. So far, the silence has been deafening. Pigs have a better chance of flying.
Posted by: ChomFa of Jumbuk 9:48am today
Comment 42 of 64

race and relidgen are different things race dosnt matter relidgen matters .allways
Posted by: alan heritage of melb 9:45am today
Comment 41 of 64

Same old Australians. So scared of the unknown. And to Maryanne Silver, please leave London. London is THE world city and you definitely will fit more into the single dictatorship view of the Camden residents (if they accept you). Please leave. Please.
Posted by: John of London 9:38am today
Comment 40 of 64

Jack of Padstow: if the muslim community didn't want to integrate, they wouldn't build a school in Camden. How are they supposed to integrate when they try to branch out into the wider community the locals are up in arms. If the locals don't want to integrate maybe they should realise they are in Australia and its what this country is all about: a fair go.
Posted by: Aussie Moore of Toowoomba 9:38am today
Comment 39 of 64

The right thing to do would be to reach a religion in this country that all are happy with, remember that this not europe or the middle east this is Australia and religious division must not form here. We must gather all the religions together and create a new one that has a bit of all of them. If we do not, new muslim immigrants will continue to be alienated and more inspired to get radical, and Australia will not be a country but a mere carbon copy of England/America.
Posted by: Andrew 9:38am today
Comment 38 of 64

It¿s funny to see everyone mentioning ¿ adopt to Australian way of life and values¿ ¿ can anyone define what are these ¿Values¿??? ¿ ( if you know any!!)
Posted by: AAA of Sydney 9:38am today
Comment 37 of 64

Jack of Padstow, Are these Australian Values that you say Muslims should adopt, that of racism and hatred? These seem to be what we stand for with the Cronulla Riots and the farce in Camden? What a joke. If by taking our values you mean not wearing Hijabs then i see that as offensive. Just as people can find that people who wear a cross as offensive. What needs to happen in Camden and in fact all Australia, is that we all need to be more Tolerant. Does it really effect you that somone else who you do not know and probably will never meet prays to a different prophet or reads a different version of the same book. Im sure if it was yet another Christian or Catholic school beingf built there would not be such a fuss. Why are we all so scared of the Muslim religion?
Posted by: davidw of Redfern 9:38am today
Comment 36 of 64

would people who oppose the muslim school would they oppose a christiian school or any other denominations i think not!
Posted by: bill hall of narooma 9:35am today
Comment 35 of 64

Hazard of down under, Daniel of Sydney and others.... You all state that it would be impossible to set up a Christian school in a Muslim state. Perhaps that is true. However should we not be promoting our Aussie way of life? Should we not be showing that the way forward is to be a kind and tolerant country? Or should we just be like them. Hating anyone unlike ourselves. I don't think that is the way to fix this issue. Do you?
Posted by: pollyanna of melbourne 9:31am today
Comment 34 of 64

Someone please explain 'our way of life' to me, because it sure as hell isn't 'giving people a fair go' or being 'fair dinkum' judging by the majority of comments posted on here. And please don't try and hide behind the 'I'm not racist but...' rubbish, it's hatred and bigotry at it's best. Why else would the rednecks of Camden place a pigs head on the school's proposed site? Morons.
Posted by: me of sydney 9:29am today
Comment 33 of 64

Is Australia about freedom of religion or not ?
Posted by: Rod of Brisbane 9:28am today
Comment 32 of 64

Jack of Padstow, there are many Christian schools that only allow those of the faith to attend. I guess these also secularise a group away from mainstream society and do nothing to protect harmony and well-being in the community
Posted by: pollyanna of melbourne 9:24am today
Comment 31 of 64

Richard Olsen of Mt Druitt 8:59am: No disrespect but maybe if your Grandfather took the time to learn English he may have found that he was not ripped off but happened to be through no fault of his own due to poor English. Anyone that is so insecure as Muslims who feel the need to pray 5 times a day should have a good long hard look at themselves
Posted by: Adam of Sydney 9:17am today
Comment 30 of 64

<sigh>........All this talk just proves one thing - that multiculturalism does NOT work....and never will either.You cannot expect so many different cultures to all live together in harmony and peace, humans just don't get along that way.We all like to THINK that we do but the sad reality is that we can't.We are too obsessed with trying to CHANGE our fellow man or claim DOMINION over one another.And that's because of the way ALL cultures are brought up, everyone believes that THEIR language, customs, beliefs and way of life is the right one - and when you mix them all up in the one country how in the hell are we supposed to live in harmony??? To do that everyone must bow their heads and accept each other.And we all know that THAT will never happen, not just in this country but all over the world.Otherwise there would never be any wars anywhere would there? Muslims and Christians have fundamental diffferences that will NEVER be resolved, you can mix them together but like oil and water they will not truly gel together. Besides, as long as religions of all types keeps pandering this 'us vs them' brainwashing mentality then what hope is there? Everyone likes to sprout on about how they're God-fearing and have Christian values etc etc but how many actually understand the concept of 'turning the other cheek' ? If everyone just observed this one simple analogy then most of our troubles would not even exist.But ask yourselves honestly - how many of us are actually prepared to do that?
Posted by: Dave of Sydney 9:16am today
Comment 29 of 64

I am a anglo saxon, non religious citizen of the area in question, i believe that the school should go ahead as all members of society should have the right to be represented in Camden, it is not fair to say that a muslim school should not be allowed when you send your children to a christian or catholic school or didnt protest when schools for these religions were made. Having a muslim school is not going to make Camden a hotspot for terrorism, get real people!!!
Posted by: Craig of Camden 9:14am today
Comment 28 of 64

If your come here for a better life and living then do as all other Australians and attend the same schools. All i here is how Muslims want to be treated the same as every other Australian, well if thats the case, stop winging and attend the schools everyone else is. Oh and people are saying that Australians who dont want this school are racist but isnt it racist of Muslims to dictate that they are the only religion that is alowd to attend this school. Muslims act like they are picked on here and secluded from everything well this is why and if you dont like it dont stay here.
Posted by: Sam of Sydney 9:08am today
Comment 27 of 64

I have no problems with anyone, the only problem I have is with people who have closed minds. If Muslims want their own schools so be it, if the public are so dead set against it, then all Christian and Jewish schools should be shut down for the same reasons the Muslim ones should. This is just outrageous racism hiding behind the hypocrisy of Christianity. Get over it people.I understand that there would be traffic issues, but this is the 21st century, there's traffic issues everywhere and they're only going to get worse as time goes on and the population in this country explodes. I happen to think that integration is not all that important an issue as just being law abiding citizens. My grandfather came over here from Denmark in the 1920's he didn't speak a word of English and to the day he died his English was atrocious. Does that make him any less Australian than anyone else? He ran several bakeries, was ripped off blind by his kind nature by "Australians" and never held a grudge for all the trouble he went through. I think that makes him very Australian. What are these Australian values that everyone is so intent on protecting?
Posted by: Richard Olsen of Mt Druitt 8:59am today
Comment 26 of 64

hahaha, Muslims been in Aust since the 1600s. I suppose they were first on the Moon as well. I fell in love with a girl who was Muslim. Integration?? yeah right. We could never be together as I didnt want to convert. Her backward parents forbade it. Im angry and upset with this so called integration garbage..
Posted by: Mark of Syd 8:54am today
Comment 25 of 64

My father & father in law went to war,somehow I think the wrong people were killed. We have a greater war on our door steps today.
Posted by: Wendy of Bonny Hills 8:53am today
Comment 24 of 64

It's not racist to have serious concerns about the motives of Muslims. Islam is not a race, it's a religion - a decision to live in a certain way. If people choose to practise a belief system which is notoriously aggressive and hostile towards large sections of the population (Christians, Jews, homosexuals, all non-Muslims, woman) then they can put up with the consequence, which is that other people won't like them very much. When a Christian nutcase decides to shoot up a church or a school or a shopping centre because of his "beliefs" other Christians condemn the act and explain why the man was wrong and acting the opposite of Christian teaching. When a Muslim does the same thing, other Muslims defend him, or excuse him, or prevaricate, or refuse to speak out against him. If Muslims want to be treated well and liked then they should start following the golden rule.
Posted by: Fran 8:48am today
Comment 23 of 64

Im with the racists on this one. The traffic congestion coming through Camden would be immense and its not needed. And God forbid people of Camden bred with people outside their own family.
Posted by: Scott of Sydney 8:42am today
Comment 22 of 64

Whats the ramble all about? there are many Muslim schools, Greek schools, Jewish schools in Sydney / NSW. No one seems to care about those ones??? My only concern is the funding that the muslim community gets to build these schools. Correct me if im wrong but i dont recall the Jewish or Greek communities getting handouts from the government to build churches or Synagogues. food for thought.
Posted by: Peter of CBD 8:34am today
Comment 21 of 64

The Northern Territory looks nice.....
Posted by: franco of sydney 8:31am today
Comment 20 of 64

Some questions arise on this issue: What would be the likely response if a group of migrants wanted to build a Christian School and promote Christianity in a devoted Muslim State? Do any Muslims here truly believe that Christians would be treated fairly and allowed to promote Christianity in Islam? Our Governments are over-tolerant on this issue. The British teacher was locked up for offending Mohammed's teddy bear. I mean really, are they serious? A teddy bear is a major issue? Offensive? But we are supposed to be tolerant even though our way of life was attacked like never before in all history: 9/11, a terrorist attack on civilians? Chistianity does not need to fight back, since it is not a religion of extremism, but we should not be obligated to tolerate unconditionally either.
Posted by: Daniel of Sydney 8:30am today
Comment 19 of 64

If Muslims don't want to integrate into Australian society than they shouldn't come to this country. By integrate I don't mean give up their Muslim beliefs. By integrate I mean adopt Australian values and ways of life and combine these with their Muslim culture - they can learn these by attending mainstream schools. I fully support the building of Mosques just like I support the construction of Churches or Temples or whatever else. But to secularise a group away from mainstream society does nothing to protect harmony and well-being within the community.
Posted by: Jack of Padstow 8:28am today
Comment 18 of 64

Make no mistake - this school will just be the start. Be very very careful Australia or you'll find yourself in the awful mess the UK (esp. England) has. This is the thin edge of the wedge.
Posted by: Maryanne Silver of London, UK 8:25am today
Comment 17 of 64

Daughter of Irish immigrants of Sydney, We are an Australian Cultured society, is that too hard to fathom?
Posted by: Mickstar of Sydney 8:17am today
Comment 16 of 64

Senada Colan of Melbourne Can you please quote mate where you got that Muslims had been in this country since the 1600's. Just according to my Knowledge it was the First Fleet that first colonised this country. So if you have any information to the contrary I would like to set my own record straight and I'm sure many would like to aswell.
Posted by: B 8:00am today
Comment 15 of 64

I have friends from all walks of life, but I agree with the people of Camden. Call me a redneck or racist it does not bother me one bit. Muslims are a weird lot and spend far too much time praying and obeying some very outdated laws. I think people should enjoy the little time we have on this planet rather than spend time worshiping something or someone that may or may not have existed. Schools are to develop life skills and not learn religion. Save that for your Temple, Mosque, Church or Synagogue.
Posted by: Adam of Sydney 7:59am today
Comment 14 of 64

There is NO place for Islamic schools anywhere in our country. Those Muslims who want such schools have knowingly come to a land of infidels and therefore should accept our teachings. We could not do otherwise in any Islamic dominated country. So why is this non-intergratable religious order freely allowed to act in a way which seriously disrupts our easy-going lifestyles?
Posted by: No Islamic Schools of NSW 7:42am today
Comment 13 of 64

Why can't children from all backgrounds come together to learn English, Maths etc? Why have religious based schools at all?
Posted by: marg of sydney 7:38am today
Comment 12 of 64

1. The INFORMATION SESSION on Wednesday Night was to provide an information about the proposal and to hear from a Muslim Cleric. The meeting was a public meeting and could have been attended by any member of the PUBLIC including the Quaranic Society. 2. The Society and told people at the time of purchase they planned to run goats on it. They also have not mentioned how they managed to be such a small society and have such a substantial sum to build this development. Camden knows nothing about the Society other than it has a former high profile lawyer as its spokesperson rather than a member of it. 3. The site for the proposed school is on the corner of the only real way to and from The Oaks, Oakdale, Nattai, Mount Hunter, Mowbray Park, Orangeville, Werombi and others, the extra traffic would wreak havoc on these residents. These residents would also be restricted getting in and out of Camden itself. 4. The extra traffic would result in changes to the traffic sequence affecting access to outlying towns, would cause problems at the intersection of Burragorang Road and the Camden By-Pass and cause problems for people attending Camden High on the opposite corner. Most residents are not concerned about their chosen religion, they are concerned at the lack of planning and information provided to them. The media always plays the racism card and that's not true for the majority of residents. This development will have a major affect on the township.
Posted by: Mel of Camden 7:37am today
Comment 11 of 64

Why is it that when people voice their opinions they are classed as racist????? What has happened to free speech in this country??? Do we have to put up with everything we are handed even if we don't agree with it, the rate payers of Camden don't want this school and should fight for their rights.It has been reported that NSW WILL BECOME THE FIRST ISLAMIC STATE no wonder people are worried......
Posted by: asproella of merrimac 7:20am today
Comment 10 of 64

its already a done deal even if the council knocks it back.the next application will be to replace st johns church spire with a dome.
Posted by: grumpy of mnc 7:11am today
Comment 9 of 64

Go to any islamic country in the world, try and get permission to stay, then try and get a Christian school started inviting all students, be they christian if you can find any, or muslim to attend for skolastic education and religious instruction. It your head is still on your sholders by night fall you would be very lucky.
Posted by: Hazard of Downunder. 6:57am today
Comment 8 of 64

Geez, I thought Australia was known as one of the most multi-cultural countries in the world. Sorry Aussie Muslims, looks like you don't count.
Posted by: Daughter of Irish immigrants of Sydney 6:44am today
Comment 7 of 64

funny thing, they were all on the news last night preaching their "Christian Rights" but I guarantee not many held any Christian values. They looked like a bunch of rabble more suited to a Macquarie Fields riot situation. Dressed to expose thier tattoos, language from the gutter and yet professing to be a people who care, Even the kids said "we don't want their school here, we don't like Muslims". now that can't be from the mouths of babies because the kids wouldn't understand. This is from the mouths of idiot parents spilling their own racist attitudes and spreading their disease. Would they be this confronting to any other religion? or how would they react to an Aboriginal school.
Posted by: steve cochrane of wyee 6:39am today
Comment 6 of 64

What a bunch of rednecks! Racism is alive and well in Camden.
Posted by: not a muslim of NSW 6:29am today
Comment 5 of 64

Its racism at its best, but I too would not want an islamic school complex on my door step. If they were people that assimilated with the community like the Italians, Greeks, etc, I am sure it would NOT be a problem, but they keep to themselves and do not assimilate except with their own. They condemn our values and the way we live and yet, they came to Australia for a better life, but still hold on to those radial traditions which were practiced year dot and when we speak up, we are condemned for our racism. We should not have to bend to their wants, because they sure as hell wouldn't bend to ours in their former countries. I am in full support of the Camden community.
Posted by: hellsbells of Sydney 5:55am today
Comment 4 of 64

Why cannot Muslim children attend mainstream schools?. They certainly do here in France. If their parents wish their children to have a Muslim education then maybe they should consider moving to a predominantly Muslim country, such as northern Africa and especially the middle east! Why do they need their own school?
Posted by: wendyreid of france 5:18am today
Comment 3 of 64

We saw the nice people of Camden with their hate and their bigotry and I have to say they make me sick. You are talking about Australian kids you morons.
Posted by: Marilyn Shepherd 3:16am today
Comment 2 of 64

Muslims have been in Australia since the 1600s. Their contact with locals was best encounter between two cultures ever on this continent... maybe residents of Camden should learn something from Muslims history in Australia, their contribution and believes... I would personally recommend newly made documentary film "Muslims in Australia - Since the 1600s" which might change their mind and calm situation, also it might be of interest for them to see non-Muslims coming together with Muslims and standing against racism... (www.muslimsinaustralia.com is the link if they want to know about it) to all others I wish the very best...SC.
Posted by: Senada Colan of Melbourne 1:24am today
Comment 1 of 64



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Peace

December 20th 2007 20:16
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If by Rudyard Kipling

December 20th 2007 00:48


If you can keep your head when all about you


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Whales Revenge

December 19th 2007 08:30


Looking for one millions signature to stop the slaughter of whales in the southern ocean


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Mountain Wingsuit

December 18th 2007 23:52


Unbelievable ride


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Amnesty for 165000 Asylum Seekers

December 18th 2007 22:42

165,000 asylum seekers to get 'amnesty' because of Home Office blunder over files
by JAMES SLACK, The Daily Mail, London


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Call to Press Japan on Whaling

December 18th 2007 21:44


Daily Telegraph, December 19, 2007


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Mortgage Crisis Made Simple by Edward Bison

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An Old Lady's Poem

December 16th 2007 04:48

When an old lady died in the geriatric ward of a small hospital near Dundee, Scotland, it was felt that she had nothing left of any value. Later, when the nurses were going through her meager possessions, they found this poem. It's quality and content so impressed the staff that copies were made and distributed to every nurse in the hospital. One nurse took her copy to Ireland. The old lady's sole bequest to posterity has since appeared in the Christmas edition of the News Magazine of the North Ireland Association for Mental Health. A slide presentation has also been made based on her simple, but eloquent poem and this little old Scottish lady with nothing left to give to the world is now the author of this 'anonymous' poem winging across the Internet. Goes to show that we all leave some footprints in time.

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Morning Poem

December 13th 2007 22:46


I woke early one morning


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This is the story of Rindercella and her sugly isters


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Secrets of Life

December 12th 2007 03:54
The most useless thing to do - worry

The greatest joy - giving


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Irish Guide to Medical Terms

December 10th 2007 23:18

An Irish Guide to Medical Terms and Meanings by Dr. Jason Wolfe - UK

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Learning German

December 10th 2007 22:04

St. Elsewhere Hospital NHS Trust

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Shipwreck

December 10th 2007 21:59
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DESIDERATA

December 8th 2007 21:01

"Desiderata" (Latin for "desired things", plural of desideratum) is an inspirational prose poem about attaining happiness in life. It was first copyrighted in 1927 by Max Ehrmann.

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Crystal Meth

December 8th 2007 05:55

Crystal Methanphetamine

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Corporate Lesson

December 8th 2007 05:52

A turkey was chatting with a bull. "I would love to be able to get to the top of that tree," sighed the turkey, but I haven't got the energy."

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Poem by Murray Harton

December 8th 2007 05:41

Below is a poem, written by the extremely talented Murray Hartin (Tropfest 2007 finalist and friend), highlighting the horrendous circumstances many of our farmers are now facing.

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Air Traffic Controllers

December 8th 2007 05:36
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS

The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are renowned as a short-tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking location, but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a Pan Am 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747, call sign Speedbird 206


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